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DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 1:29 am

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DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

At the moment, there are no period radar units in DCS. However, I've been doing some experimentation using combinations of modern units, buildings and other objects. Here are some example mock-ups in DCS with some historical counterparts. I did these quite quickly, so no doubt if we include these in the SoW DCS campaign, we will tweak them to get them even better. However, this should give at least a rough idea of what is possible.




Würzberg Radar
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The Würzberg stand-in is not particularly convincing, but it is rather small and has a lower range. Therefore, it is rather unobtrusive. The modern substitute has a range of 90km and the historical unit was up to 70km, which is close.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C3%BCrzburg_radar




Freya Radar
Image
The Freya stand-in is more convincing, although it scans quite quickly, which is not correct. That said, even the scanning version looks pretty convincing and it makes for a decent Freya site. The range match is better here (modern = 120km, historical = 200km). As the accuracy for the historical unit was poor, I actually think this is a good compromise. All the indications I have found suggest that there were 2 Freyas and sometimes a Würzberg Riese at each major site.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freya_radar




Wassermann Radar
Image
This looks the least contrived, although the broad antenna array at the lower part is not correct. Thus, this is sort of a hybrid between the FuMG.41 Wassermann L and FuMG.42 Wassermann S variants. An additional problem was that the Wassermann radar was not deployed in France (although they were planned) — there was a Mammut radar at Digullevillem, but that is quite different. The range of the modern stand-in (120km) is actually shorter than the historical one (300km), but this is probably okay, given the limited size of the map. Like the others, this has near-perfect accuracy.
Ref: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wassermann_radar




As these are all working units, they can be used for tracking aircraft. I've done some tests and they can certainly pick up TF-51D and B-17G units... even a single aircraft. They are all very accurate though. There is no "uncertainty" in their tracking capability.

It is also possible to destroy them. I did some testing on this too, and cannon fire (20mm), bombs (SC50s) and artillery (7,5cm) can knock them out pretty easily. And, once gone, their radar capability goes off too.

Of course, I would certainly prefer an historically-correct LW radar modelled directly into DCS. However, at least for the time being, these substitutes give some of the required functionality for the SoW campaign.


EDIT : This this post for an evaluation of LW radar sites viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6835&p=53198#p53198
Last edited by Admin (Dietrich) on Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added link to LW radar site evaluation
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby DD_Fenrir » Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:46 am

Excellent work Dietrich.

As you say, the period units would be preferable but these make plausible substitutes in the interim.


I appreciate the capabilities of these modern systems maybe a little precise for authenticity, however, we don't want to have them be too inaccurate otherwise we might miss out on some good furballs! ;) :lol:
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:55 am

Dietrich, can a radar unit be attached to an LST ship . . . (you know what I'm gettign at . . . )?
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:12 pm

Admin (Philstyle) wrote:Dietrich, can a radar unit be attached to an LST ship . . . (you know what I'm gettign at . . . )?


Yes.

Image

It has a 120 km radar range and can detect individual German aircraft. I did some testing and it can be knocked out with an SC50 bomb with oV-waagerecht fuse (i.e. from a FW 190). The placement of the radar on the ship itself is arbitrary, so it could be moved further forwards along the ship to make it match the historical unit better. However, there are a large number of caveats; I'll report those separately.
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:30 pm

Still researching all this. Here's a reference for LW radar at the time of the invasion.

Cap d'Antifer........Würzburg Riese Fu.M.O. 214......Calais Fu M.O. 2
Cap de la Heve.....Mammut Gustav Fu.M.O. 51.......Würzburg Riese Fu.M.O. 214...Calais/Boulogne Fu.M.O. 2/3
Houlgate..............Würzburg Riese Fu.M.O. 214.....Lorenz
Arromanches........Würzburg Riese Fu.M.O. 214......Calais Fu.M.O. 2
Percee.................Calais Fu.M.O. 2
La Pernelle...........Mammut Fu.M.O. 51
Cap Levy.............Würzburg Riese Fu.M.O. 214......Calais Fu.M.O. 2

Cap d'Antifer attacked on 11-5 , 22-5 , 23-5 , 30-5 , 2-6 , 3-6 .
Cap de la Heve attacked on 24-5 , 4-6 .
Houlgate attacked on 24-5.
Arromanches attacked on 22-5 , 23-5 , 30-5 .
Pencee attacked on 23-5 , 24-5 , 30-5 .
La Pernelle attacked on 19-5 , 22-5 , 24-5 , 2-6 , 3-6 .
Cap Levy attacked on 27-5 .

Aircrafts...... 23.18 5-6-1944 Seeko Normandie "Fliegeralarm Cherbourg
Anflüge sehr vieler Maschienen Ost- u. Westteil Halbinsel"

Ref: https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=83363 (and there is lots of other interesting information therein as well).


Note that most of these have been knocked out at the time of the invasion.

I'm now writing up the post-invasion (circa July 1944) LW radar sites. There seem to be some operational sites inland at JaFu.5, Stellung Wurm, and Stellung Gepard/Evreux. I'll have a map ready shortly.
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby No.54 Joker (KL-J) » Tue Sep 04, 2018 8:17 am

thank you for the continued effort here ...

S!
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:38 pm

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DCS Normandie radar sites

The time of the DCS Normandie map is July/August 1944, although this is somewhat vague, based on conflicting modelling (REF). For example: A-16 Brucheville (operational 02-Aug-1944) compared to Evreux (evacuated 06-Jul-1944).

However, given a dateline of July 1944, the question is where were the radar sites.

The Allies had radar ships, called "Fighter Direction Tenders". These were converted LST ships, with radar units, which were moored at fixed locations. The LW had the Kammhuber Line, also known as the "Himmelbett", as well as a series of coastal defence radars. Most of the latter had been knocked out as part of the D-Day landings, but the Kammhuber Line was a more disparate target and remained active post invasion.

What I have done is gone through all the references I can find for all LW radar and beacon sites in the Normandy area. These, I have plotted on the map.


Image

Full-resolution PDF version: http://www.stormofwar.org/downloads/dcs ... ap_v01.pdf


Map key

The blue dashed line is the extent of the map area.
The green dashed line is the extend of actual map texture.
The black dashed line is the extent of the Normandie province.
Red circles are former LW airfields, by now captured.
The Blue circle is Evreux, operated until 06-Jul-1944.
German radar and beacon sites are marked with triangles.
The locations of the Allied radar ships are marked with a cross
I've also marked the location of Paris centre, for reference

Locations

The following is t the locations/codenames of the radar or air-warning report and command sites. Anything that was operational between June 1944 and August 1944 is included, even if it was destroyed. I've not included sites that are technically on the map, but are well outside of any feasible DCS scenario. This applies particularly to the eastern edge of the map (which is very poorly modelled on the DCS map, so is not usable).

Code: Select all
 1 Lachs
 2 Leda-Y 1-FreyaEGON 5xY-linie
 3 Frosch  (Mammut, Freya, 2xWuerzburg-Riese)
 4 Ammer (13./III./LnRgt53)
 5 JaFu Bretagne
 6 Tausendfuessler
 7 Pfau (approx.location) (22./IV./LnRgt53)
 8 Igel/Imme (9./III./LnRgt53)
 9 Vampir (approx.location) (11./III./LnRgt53)
10 Milbe (approx.location) (19./IV./LnRgt53)
11 Assel (approx.location) (17./IV./LnRgt53)
12 Auerhahn (approx.location) / Cap d'Antifer (Wuerzburg Riese Fu.M.O. 214......Calais Fu M.O. 2)
13 Made (18./IV./LnRgt53; abbnd. Sep 1944)
14 NJRF 117 (to 19-Jun-1944)
15 Zyklop 1 (sonstige) (approx.location)
16 Baumlaeufer (approx.location)
17 Brutus-Y -- 20-Jun-1944 = 2xFreyaEgon, 5x Y-Linien (approx.location), abbnd. Aug 1944
18 JaFu 5 (disb. 440719)
19 Perlhuhn (beacon) -- conflict with site near Paris ???
20 Fliege ??? (approx.location)
21 Wurm (16./IV./LnRgt53; disb. Sep 1944)
22 Barbe (approx.location)
23 Dickhaeuter Mammut, Wassermann, Freya, Wuerzburg Riese
24 Gepard beacon (operational Evreux, 1944) (approx.location) 6. Flugmelde-Leit-Kompanie II./Ln-Rgt 53
25 Bernhard Be 1 / Favieres (destr. 13-Aug-1944
26 Gepard Radar (approx.location)
27 Skorpion, Hoffmann (approx.location)
28 Schnecke (approx.location)
29 Biene  (1xFreya 2xWuerzburg Riese
30 Digulleville, Mammut
31 NJRF 118
32 5 JagdDiv
33 Penelope-Y, 20-Jun-1944
34 NJRF 116
35 JaFu 4
36 II JK <440821
37 II JK >440821



Critical sites

Given this census of locations, I've now tried to figure out what were operational and what we should implement. This comes down to three main sites.


#17 Brutus-Y, near Bernay, for JaFu 5. This was a major radar site with 2xFreyaEgon and 5x Y-Linien. The site was abandoned in August 1944, although the exact day is not listed. It is not clear how long the radar were operational at this site, given the advance on Falais (Operation Tractable). It may be that this was already knocked out in late June, but it would nevertheless be a good forward target for Allied airstrikes to eliminate in the early part of an online campaign.

#21 Kammhuber site "Wurm". I have little information on this site, other than it was operated by 16./IV./Ln.Rgt.53. That unit was disbanded in September 1944, but I suspect that the site itself was no longer functioning before that time. I can find no details.

#26 Kammhuber site "Gepard". This was the radar facility associated with the Evreux airfield. Air units were withdrawn out of this site in July 1944. Multiple Luftgau-Nachr. regiments were located here, including the main staff for air-warning in West-France, and extremely heavy flak defences. Despite numerous attacks, the airfield, satellites, dispersals and general infrastructure were repaired following raids up until the raid in late June. The radar facility and anciliary sites associated with Evreux are essential "back line defence", given the limitations of the DCS map.



In conclusion, when looking for potential air-warning radar locations for the Normandie online campaign, I would advocate implementing these three sites for the Axis side.


References:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Tractable -- Operation Tractable
viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6813 -- LW Airfields
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammhuber_Line -- Kammhuber Line
http://www.gyges.dk/Stellungen%20France ... nt%207.pdf -- LW air-warning sites in France
http://www.gyges.dk/Luftnachrichten%20Rgt%20229%20-.pdf -- Luftnachrichten-Regiment 229
http://www.gyges.dk/II%20JK%20Flum%20Spring%201944.pdf (broken link?)
http://www.gyges.dk/Luftwaffe%20command ... es%202.htm -- Luftwaffe HQ for Reichs Luftverteidigung.
https://bunkerblog.eu/wp-content/upload ... nglish.pdf -- L 479 Funkmessgerät Auswertung “Anton” (Pt.1)
https://bunkerblog.eu/wp-content/upload ... nglish.pdf -- L 479 Funkmessgerät Auswertung “Anton” (Pt.2)
https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=83363 -- Radar site at Normandy
https://www.geschichtsspuren.de/index.p ... &Itemid=63 -- Luftnachrichten-Datenbank (EXCELLENT SITE!!)
https://www.rumaniamilitary.ro/enciclop ... oi-mondial -- Radare Germane in cel de-al Doilea Razboi Mondial
https://www.nonstopsystems.com/radio/he ... l-favieres -- BERNHARD installation BE-1 / FAVIÈRES
http://www.ww2.dk/ground/ln/ln53.html -- Luftnachrichten-Regiment 53
http://eure18701945.canalblog.com/ -- Lieux de mémoire en Vallée d'Eure
Last edited by Admin (Dietrich) on Mon Sep 10, 2018 5:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Fixed the PDF link
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:03 pm

Further the above, I've been doing some experimentation with radar visibility. I've looked at several different cases of radar placement, and also with different "roles".

Firstly, in the mission editor, the F10 Map Options was set to "MAP ONLY".

In the test, I used an "EWR 1L13" radar unit. I set up three different scenarios, with a radar submerged under a ship (the mid-channel case), with a radar mounted statically on a ship (as exampled earlier in this thread), and with a radar mounted normally on land. I then put enemy aircraft in the detection zones of each of these units, as well as a "control" case which was completely out of range. There is what the different roles could see.

Code: Select all
                Subm.+   Static   Land   Out of
                 ship     ship    unit   range

Pilot             -        -        -      -
Tac.Cmdr          -      partly    yes     -
JTAC              -      partly    yes     -
Game master      yes      yes      yes    yes
Observer         yes      yes      yes    yes


The "partly" result is most interesting. What I found was that the radar has some form of occlusion modelled. This means that the radar needs a clear line of sight to the target. What I found was that in the "static ship" case, the superstructure of the ship caused a blind spot. This is actually rather cool, as it means there are some areas where the radar will not be sensitive.

This led to some further experimentation, and it seems that DCS models occlusion generally. Terrain will block the radar, so mountains and other ground clutter will cause loss of signal. This is also good.

However, the downside is that the occlusion includes the water surface of the ocean. A submerged radar unit, while possible, gives no return.


So, yes, we can have functioning FDT ships for the Allies and functioning radar for the LW, that will give plots only for the Tactical Commander or JTAC roles for that side. Mid-channel ships are not possible, but estuary ones are. I am aware that the ranges are very large for the estuary-placed ship, but I will do some experimentation with alternative units.
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Re: DCS Luftwaffe Radar Substitutes

Postby EAF51_Jimmi » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:22 pm

wow!
You are doing an excellent work!
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