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Thought I'd try out this career mode...

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Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Sat Mar 17, 2018 3:44 pm

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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:08 pm

These Stukas went down surprisingly easily...

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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:22 pm

The damage always seems excessive in BoX, engines especially - although previously I just put it down to being used to having only .303s in CloD.

Mind you they're never quite as easy in multiplayer, probably because actual people aren't as content to let you shoot them down as the AI bombers seem to be. :lol:

Also, having seen the portraits of your wingmen I'm pretty sure they're of the male variety. ;)
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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:15 am

Mission 3 - the A20 LOD apparently is buggy, which is why the aircraft are popping in and out:

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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby No.401_Wolverine » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:27 pm

The french objective complete message is kinda funny (easily fixed I'm sure).

The aggressiveness or lack thereof of the bomber gunners (particularly in the Stukas) is underwhelming. I had a 5 kill mission on an intercept stuka formation as well.

I've got things set on Dense front, moderate difficulty and it's been fun so far. I'm not sure what the 'difficulty' is meant to do because I've encountered some pretty novice pilots on the enemy side as well as some guys that seemed to be higher than the moderate difficulty setting. It must just manage the mix perhaps. I just got pasted in the last mission I flew when a ton of G4s showed up about 3000ft above my group and slice through us like butter while we were engaging ground attack aircraft.

The AI isn't perfect by any means, but it provides more of a variety of responses than CloD or DCS for my money right now. I can't just assume a method of attack and know that the wing man will ignore me or something like that. I do have to make good choices, and whatever you want from an AI, that's probably high on the list. Probably some people are good enough to take advantage and exploit the AI for what it is, but that's not me so I'm enjoying it. The more you 'play by the rules' the more you get out of the product I think.

It seems that unless you put 'iron man' on, it doesn't really matter what the result of your mission was. I bailed out but the 'chute only opened at the last second and I was killed according to the message on the screen, but it treated the result as just a lost aircraft and the day moved on.

I wish there was a middle ground for the icons. I like being able to see the names of the wing men when I get close, but I'd prefer just a little dot or triangle once they get beyond 200yrds or so. Same with enemy aircraft. Maybe that will be a mod? (hint hint).

The clouds thing is weird. I noticed it right away and it seemed to me that they aren't processing anti-aliasing on the aircraft if they pass in front of the clouds. Not sure if that's a trick they're using to get more FPS or something, but zoom in close to an aircraft before and after it passes by a cloud and you'll spot it right away. Anti-aliasing and then no anti-aliasing and then back to anti-aliasing when it gets out of cloud (or the cloud isn't behind it anymore).

Also, we tested the co-op mode last night and found it to be serviceable and very much like the old 1946 style. Once one of our guys was dead, he could watch the rest of us fly if he wanted to (since dead is dead). The options to select (or lock) aircraft modifications and skins is nice The mission that comes with the update is pretty simple but when I opened it up in the FMB it looked like a conspiracy theorist's wet dream of yarn and pegs on a wall with all the object links and operations et cetera. It's going to take some doing to get competent with that thing....

One thing I really wish they had, which shouldn't be a problem with BoBp is english voice acting. Another mod perhaps? I don't care of it's some guy just doing a bad russian accent in english, but it's very frustrating not knowing what pilots are shouting unless I take a second to read the screen. And I have a 55" screen about two feet from my face. Looking at that text means I'm not looking where I'm going. Very annoying.
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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:21 am

Intersting read Wolverine, I always enjoy reading your thoughful reviews of sims.. you could contribute to platforms with a wider readership than this poxy site you know.

I'm quite enjoying the career mode. If anything, it reminds me of simming back int he mid 1990s, before multiplayer really took off. I grew up on "career" mode in games like Aces Over Europe, so this feels like that all over again.

After 3 flights I feel like I could happily sink 50 hours into a few campaigns, which for me, would be getting my moneys' worth. I wouldn't even need to touch multiplayer.
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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:16 pm

I expect the Career mode is going to be my go to place for VR use for the forseeable future, on the fighter front it helps to make up for some of the AI deficiencies, and as a bomber pilot it's nice to sit there at 10,000ft flying formation and enjoying the view in VR.

My current 'wish list' for the career mode would be:

Co-op
Night Missions Unless they're available in different squadrons, but I had a look at a night fighter squadron and the first sortie was a daytime escort mission.
Wingman Skins You can adjust them when you're the squadron leader, but it would be good if you could always do it as they're yet to add aircraft ID codes and such.
Expanded Squadron Roster It's nice to know who all my wingmen are and what they look like, but I'd like to know the same for my rear gunner and navigator as well!
Expanded Starting Options Being able to start somewhere other than right at the top or right at the bottom of the rank ladder.
Mission variety As fun as it is to bomb from between 8,500 and 10,000ft every day it would be nice to mix it up a bit, I don't know if the Soviets ever did low level strikes like the RAF did, but at least if I ever get promoted I can bring my decadent western bomber tactics with me and adjust the flight plan. :lol:

Plus I'm yet to have any anti-shipping missions, unless they're done by a different aircraft type or I just haven't been flying long enough.
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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby No.401_Wolverine » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:00 pm

Admin (Philstyle) wrote:Intersting read Wolverine, I always enjoy reading your thoughful reviews of sims.. you could contribute to platforms with a wider readership than this poxy site you know.

I'm quite enjoying the career mode. If anything, it reminds me of simming back int he mid 1990s, before multiplayer really took off. I grew up on "career" mode in games like Aces Over Europe, so this feels like that all over again.

After 3 flights I feel like I could happily sink 50 hours into a few campaigns, which for me, would be getting my moneys' worth. I wouldn't even need to touch multiplayer.


Oh god, no. I spend enough time on the internet already.

I poured a LOT of time into AoE when I was a kid. I can still hum that opening theme tune. They really had to push the style over substance side of things back then to make up for all the things you couldn't do with the technology of the day.

It's almost like a good career or campaign mode is two games that you have to blend together. First you have the flight sim side of it which is pretty straight forward in terms of what you're trying to accomplish. Good FM, DM, AI, and environment. Second you have a sort of basic 'management' game. Rosters, equipment, upgrades, rewards, missions, etc.

I think the Rowan's Battle of Britain game showed this pretty clearly. The flight sim game and the management game were tied together, but they almost seemed like separate pieces glued together with both having enough in them to be enjoyable on their own. I actually played that game for many hours as commander without jumping into a cockpit once (partly becasue in the original version it was so buggy jumping into the cockpit usually crashed the game). There was enough meat on that part of the game to make it worth playing for its own sake. I'm not sure BoX career mode is quite on that level, but it definitely makes an effort in that direction.

I'm convinced that the ultimate career mode would just be an active combat arena with the AI handling as much or as little of the overall battle plan as you ask it to, with you handling the rest.

SETUP
Take the map, and drop everything in as you want it in the start condition when you say 'GO!'. So, all the airbases, front lines, rear supply lines, paths for resupply convoys and trains, put in how many aircraft and of what type each airbase has to start, throw in all the pilots names and skills that are available to start, etc. Then assign overall objectives to both sides (what is the 'win' condition). Maybe it's just not losing for a period of time, or it's capturing a certain location or locations by a certain date. Make sure the AI has tools that generally work in aid of this (routines about how to generate a ground attack mission, air attack mission, which missions work for certain objectives, etc.).

GO!
Then just let 'er rip. The AI on both sides auto creates missions (like BoX does now) and the sim decides the results. Reset and repeat the next day of the campaign all the way until someone achieves their objective. The player can decide to take on the AI role to create missions if they want or can leave it to the AI. The player can decide to create multiple pilots in the campaign and assign them to different airfields to participate in the war on a larger scale if they want to.

You could even have a little AI commander settings page whee you could adjust aggressiveness/defensiveness, how much of a build up of units they need before they'll go on the offensive, etc. Or you could have the AI commanders be part of the game itself and have those settings be set for each commander. The player could assign certain AI commanders to certain sectors and have to deal with the consequences (put an aggressive commander in a weakly held position and see what happens).

These are the kinds of single player experiences I was hoping to get when we were playing Aces over Europe all those years ago. But along came the consumer internet and multiplayer gaming and it became a lot easier to just dump players into bland environments with the novelty of fighting with or against other real people, like that was the ultimate goal all along and they did an end run around actual gameplay design.

Not sure about you, but I know a lot of real people and I prefer the company of a computer to most of them....
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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:50 pm

The campaign everyone always holds as the pinnacle of flight sim dynamic campaigns is the one from Falcon 4, and suffice to say I would have played a lot more DCS over the years if they had one like it!
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Re: Thought I'd try out this career mode...

Postby StG77_CountZero » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:19 pm

19RAF MJDixon wrote:I expect the Career mode is going to be my go to place for VR use for the forseeable future, on the fighter front it helps to make up for some of the AI deficiencies, and as a bomber pilot it's nice to sit there at 10,000ft flying formation and enjoying the view in VR.

My current 'wish list' for the career mode would be:

Co-op
Night Missions Unless they're available in different squadrons, but I had a look at a night fighter squadron and the first sortie was a daytime escort mission.
Wingman Skins You can adjust them when you're the squadron leader, but it would be good if you could always do it as they're yet to add aircraft ID codes and such.
Expanded Squadron Roster It's nice to know who all my wingmen are and what they look like, but I'd like to know the same for my rear gunner and navigator as well!
Expanded Starting Options Being able to start somewhere other than right at the top or right at the bottom of the rank ladder.
Mission variety As fun as it is to bomb from between 8,500 and 10,000ft every day it would be nice to mix it up a bit, I don't know if the Soviets ever did low level strikes like the RAF did, but at least if I ever get promoted I can bring my decadent western bomber tactics with me and adjust the flight plan. :lol:

Plus I'm yet to have any anti-shipping missions, unless they're done by a different aircraft type or I just haven't been flying long enough.


Regarding coop, i download PWCG campaigns and he has option to play them in coop mode, missions are generated in coop mode and saved in your coop folder and i was able to host them and play them with Rip, only my flight was visable with 4 mig 3 and all worked same way as if i played it in single mode. Only problem is logs are not registerig correctly as something is broken and he needs to update his campaign. So for start ill have fun playing his campaign in coop mode, but it would be great if we could do same for career mode that is in game now.

in career i played only 2 missions with lagg3 and it was good, all the stuff around presentation is great and its what was needed in game for long time, so they did good job.
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