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Radar in BoX?

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Radar in BoX?

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 2:38 pm

One of the key points that came up during the "what is missing" discussion was the issue of TOPHAT and radar control. The idea of vectoring fighters to incoming raids is a very compelling mechanism. It also adds a major aspect to the gameplay. Add to that the radio comms and you get a very immersive experience.

CloD 4.312 has this. It is probably likely that we could get that working in 4.5 too.

DCS also has a reliable radar/controller mechanism.

BoX does not have this... yet.

However, 1C/777 are actively working on it. Their system is tentatively called "Air Marshal", and will incorporate numerous features to do with sending messages to aircraft, processing intel, receiving reports, radar, etc..

It was originally slated for release this year, but it has been delayed with the general BoK delay. My understanding is that it is critical to the Bodenplatte release, but that they will roll it out with Kuban so they can sort out the issues ahead of when it is really needed. Jason WIlliams discussed it during the Q&A session he held after the BoBo announcement.

At the moment, it is not clear how that implementation will pan out, or what the timescale for it will be. But it is clear there is some serious developer competition going on, and that is an excellent thing!
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby No.504 Leifr » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:00 pm

I am sorry for potentially having your thread locked over on the BoX forum. :lol:

Yes, I am looking forward to seeing what this mode entails.
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby Barone » Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:26 pm

I didn't know that they were implementing the radar on box.
I agree about the Comms. Would be nice to have a system built in the game like falcon that has the "ivc".
It works mostly like a real radio and you can set channels for your squad and using the broadcast for coordination with your team.
Having it in built in the game helps because everyone have it already in.
And in a similar like box when people tends to do teamwork online would be good.
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby 71st_AH Rob (XR-R) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:56 pm

DCS has a few ways of doing RADAR including a nice 3rd party module called LoRAX which is improving all the time. Not only can the operator act as GCI but you can do ATC including precision approach and in the next update you will be able to control ground traffic on the ramps and taxi ways. The IFR will also be active in an upcoming update.

There is also Simple Radio which is a very realistic simulation of radios and extremely easy to install and use.
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Thu Dec 21, 2017 5:20 pm

71st_AH Rob (XR-R) wrote:DCS has a few ways of doing RADAR including a nice 3rd party module called LoRAX which is improving all the time. Not only can the operator act as GCI but you can do ATC including precision approach and in the next update you will be able to control ground traffic on the ramps and taxi ways. The IFR will also be active in an upcoming update.

There is also Simple Radio which is a very realistic simulation of radios and extremely easy to install and use.


I knew about Simple Radio, but LoRAX was new to me. Thanks for the heads-up on that one... that's another useful DCS thing to know about. I guess that's part of the challenge: getting familiar with all the different systems, mods and capabilities.
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby 56RAF_Phoenix » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:29 pm

In RL, I had heard that the Soviets used radar on the Don Front, but there was precious little information.
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_in_World_War_II#Ground-Based pages are really interesting, but give little operational info except hinting that the idigenous Rus-2 and the gun-laying Son-2a copy of the British GL Mk II were used.
However, I've just found the following excerpt from a google group:
In some books on Soviet air power, the use of ground based radar
systems is discussed. One example is in the book "Attack of the
Airacobras" by Dmitry Loza. It is sort of spread throughout book, but
the following paragraphs might be of interest:

"The first weeks of the use of the RUS-2 demonstrated its
capabilities. It could detect targets at a range of fifty to sixty
miles, and sometimes at eighty to ninety miles if the enemy aircraft
were flying at an altitude of 9,800 to 13,000 feet in a formation of
no fewer than six to ten aircraft. When the ceiling was 5,000 to 6,500
feet and enemy bombers went out on a mission following the lower edge
of the cloud base, the radar could detect the formation at a distance
of twenty-five to thirty-five miles from the front line.
Coincidentally, this is approximately the same distance from the front
line that the RUS-2 radar was located, in the opposite direction."

He discusses the location of the sets a bit more, and then a little
further down:

"9th Guards Fighter Division began to operate in the interests of
formations of 51st Army in the Crimean bridgehead on 10 November 1943
using the information provided by the RUS-2. The presence of the radar
set constantly monitoring the airspace permitted the command to
maintain modest forces for coverage - a group of from two to ten
aircraft, depending on the situation. To provide equivalent coverage
without use of the radar set would require one pair of fighters at a
rate of ten hours per day, or approximately 215 aircraft sorties.

Using information received from the RUS-2, on-call groups took off to
intercept the enemy and successfully conducted aerial engagements.
Experience showed that the presence of the radar apparatus in the
division yielded an economy of 50 percent in fuel and engine hours."

There is a lot more interesting info in that book, of which I cannot
copy down everything of course.

I have also seen similar info in a few other books in my collection,
both English and Russian text and mostly on the use of the RUS-2.
Later in the war the Soviets used airborne radars, apparently
installed in Pe-2 aircraft, but I cannot remember much more about that
without really digging through my sources. An internet search may be
able to provide more detail on that.


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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby Barone » Sun Dec 24, 2017 1:55 pm

56RAF_Phoenix wrote:In RL, I had heard that the Soviets used radar on the Don Front, but there was precious little information.
The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_in_World_War_II#Ground-Based pages are really interesting, but give little operational info except hinting that the idigenous Rus-2 and the gun-laying Son-2a copy of the British GL Mk II were used.
However, I've just found the following excerpt from a google group:

56RAF_phoenix


As far as I remember LW forces used moveable (they were fitted over some trucks) radars in Russia.
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby 71st_AH Rob (XR-R) » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:05 pm

71st_AH Rob (XR-R) wrote:DCS has a few ways of doing RADAR including a nice 3rd party module called LoRAX which is improving all the time.


*LotATC. I HATE AUTO CORRECT!

https://www.lotatc.com

We can also use Combined Arms to do a simple version of GCI.
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Sun Dec 24, 2017 6:20 pm

71st_AH Rob (XR-R) wrote:*LotATC. I HATE AUTO CORRECT!


You're lucky it didn't get corrected to "LolCAT" *.






* Speaking of BoX... :-\
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Re: Radar in BoX?

Postby 56RAF_Roblex » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:56 pm

Of course there is major difference between how Radar was used in CLoD and how it might work in BoX because in CLoD a raid could be seen 10-30 minutes before it reached its intended target while in BoX a group of bombers might only fly 5 minutes between take-off and target. Yes I know they *can* fly longer but in BoX 20 minutes to target counts as a long flight.

What the new BoX system will give us though is less about seeing bomber formations in time to scramble and intercept them and more about co-ordinating the defenders to the best effect. It enables a controller to say "Hey! you fighters capping Klimentevo depot There is nobody heading your way but there *is * a large formation of bombers just 20km South on their way to bomb Mozhaisk factory!"
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