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So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

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So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 8:15 am

Right, time to re-open some cans of worms.
to open this up: I'm really unsure about WWII flight sim direction right now, much less sure than I was only 2 weeks ago.
This would have been my opinion 2 weeks ago:
DCS has a strong platform base, built on the back of very solid flight and systems modelling. With the development of a similarly complex DM and some performance improvements and additional air-frames of the period we should have a clear leader in the genre. I would have thrown my lot in with DCS quite happily.

HOWEVER . . as of about 2 weeks ago:
Seems to me that DCS are in the process of Borking the Normandy Map and WW2 part of their product right now.
Hardly an update to any of the WW2 machines or map for around 3 months now. They seem focussed almost exclusively on the F18/ F14 releases which are generating ridiculous amounts of Hype. Thing is, even if these aircraft are amazing, if the playing environment is poor (which is often the case in DCS) then it seems a waste of a great FM to me.
I was hoping for an update in the past month that would add some real progress to the WWII stuff... but they've not released a thing.

I've got significant issues with the following, none of which appear to be on any kind of reasonable "fix" timeline:
1. The Sound RADAR, and the issues with hearing other aircraft when in combat
2. The way the sea is modelled/ looks which is nasty in every lighting condition except for when there is direct sun-glare on it
3. The land-side parts of the Normandy map do not look good from altitude. You can see all the sharp lines where the pieces of map have been plonked together like a 5-year old's attempt at a jigsaw puzzle. Also large parts of the map are still incomplete and look even worse (copy&paste textures)...It's nowhere near a finished product
4. The damage model.. still out of date/ simplistic and nonsense
5. The planeset, still no historical matchups
6. Asset pack.. after the initial flurry.. hardly an addition
7. Effects - rubbish clouds and absense of flak bursts in particaulr
8. AI aircraft and still crap. B17 gunners are too robtic. AI DM is garbage.
9. Awful clouds still.. bad resoution, bad lighting/ colouring and they do the pop-in/out and rotate thing.
10. unstable... it is fucking unstable, esp in multiplayer

This week has been a bit of an eye openeer for me, with BoK being released. . . Yes, it has its problems (and it a bit of a cartoon at times) and the poricing model is quite similar to DCS actually (I've spent nearly USD100 getting the three maps/assets packs (S/M/K) and the spitfire) . . . However, it is popular and the gameplay elements have wide appeal.
What's more, it is very, very stable in multiplayer. Minial lag/ warping and the launcher etc works.. unlike DCS....
Also, the lightign and sea in BoX are exactly what a sim should have. I couldn't ask for better.
However, I still have major problems wqith the IL2 series (S/M/K) too, these being:
1. Lower res overall (land/ aircraft/ objects)
2. Clouds are also garbage, like DCS
3. Hollywood effects - some of the effects are just a bit too OT for me. IL2 loves EXPLOSIONS!!! (TM) and FIRE!!!! and stuff breaking off and it's all very in your face with the visual side of damage and explosion. There's nothing subtle about it. It's all a bit Michael Bey.
4. Visibilty Bubble... nothing exists outside of about a 10km radius...

So I made a comparison side-by-side list of the two “sims” rating the key features. The problem is, neither is a really enticing package… what I’d like to have is a combination of the two!

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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Tue Sep 05, 2017 10:59 am

As we've only just gotten ourselves set up with DCS (seemingly as everyone else is getting bored of DCS), BoK would have to offer something exceptional and concrete in order to convince us to spend another wad of god knows how much money switching over to another flight sim.
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:04 am

19RAF MJDixon wrote:As we've only just gotten ourselves set up with DCS (seemingly as everyone else is getting bored of DCS), BoK would have to offer something exceptional and concrete in order to convince us to spend another wad of god knows how much money switching over to another flight sim.


For now I'd say it doesn't offer enough to switch over.
This is the problem we are in, each is doing different things well, and neither is really oncinvcing on its own - with each having some glaring problems still. ..
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby No.54 dix (KL-X) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:33 am

So that means SoW5 on clod confirmed? :twisted: When do we start? :twisted:

i agree with MJDixon, after getting al set up with dcs, i'd rather go back than try my luck again so soon..and in the meanwhile ED could bring a decent DM and a few assets (where are the german bombers??) as far as the map goes, i'd like the white cliffs pretty please, and a few more airfields in england (hawkinge\lympne, gatwick, biggen, and those north of southend) and i'd be ok with it, the water...i've flew right into it too many times because i couldn't tell how high i was... no idea how it is in real life, but i rarely happened in clod, or bos

the real problem with dcs it's that it is super slow, it will take years to see a flyable 110 or stuka, if any...
well it's taking a lifetime to see them as AI assets aswell tbh...

audio customization is a big fail imho, definitively not a win for dcs, audio radar could be very well reduced if you weren't able to drop all in cockpit and engine sounds to the bare minimum..

also i'm not sure you have to buy kuban to fly on it? i could fly on moscow without having paid for it, which is a big win for 1C for not dividing the community
Last edited by No.54 dix (KL-X) on Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:46 am

No.54 dix (KL-X) wrote:So that means SoW5 on clod confirmed? :twisted: When do we start? :twisted:


Migth as well include Rise of Flight if you're going to go that far back in history...
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:49 am

Admin (Philstyle) wrote:
No.54 dix (KL-X) wrote:So that means SoW5 on clod confirmed? :twisted: When do we start? :twisted:


Migth as well include Rise of Flight if you're going to go that far back in history...


Balls to that, no way I can manage a 50 sortie career in the Sopwith 'flip on landing and break your neck' Dolphin. :P

Actually SoW Rise of Flight sounds quite good...
Last edited by 19RAF MJDixon on Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby No.54 dix (KL-X) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 11:50 am

Admin (Philstyle) wrote:Migth as well include Rise of Flight if you're going to go that far back in history...

there's still plenty of people flying IL2 1946 from what i can understand..
and plenty more flying Falcon 4.0 BMS.
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:00 pm

No.54 dix (KL-X) wrote:
Admin (Philstyle) wrote:Migth as well include Rise of Flight if you're going to go that far back in history...

there's still plenty of people flying IL2 1946 from what i can understand..
and plenty more flying Falcon 4.0 BMS.


I can quite confidently say that IL2 would score "poor" in most of the categories above now, when compared to DCS and new IL2 . . .
There's always this little gem:


Or for the true connisuer:
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby No.54 dix (KL-X) » Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:47 pm

Admin (Philstyle) wrote:I can quite confidently say that IL2 would score "poor" in most of the categories above now, when compared to DCS and new IL2 . . .

Do you mean 1946 or CloD ?

Because i'd be really curious to see all these "poor" scoring from clod. Ok it visually, airplane-look-wise(because the maps don't look great at all in my opinion), it's not as good as DCS, and it has that damn fog of war visual bubble
but DCS needs label mods to play online....
CloD is 100 times more stable than DCS is, rudder banding is very rare, damage model is excellent, audio is good, the map far more detailed than normandy will ever be from here to two-three years time, pricing is not even worth mentioning, amount of planes you can fly is far greater than dcs can provide in years, boX is close to that (until tf5, if and when it'll come out eventually)
the sea looks good, the clouds looks good
i like BoX weapons effects, but apparently you dont since invisible tracers from DCS scored higher

i'm quite amazed to see all "POOR" ratings on AI behaviour since at the beginning of this year everybody was saying how good AIs were in DCS.

i don't want to be the clod fanboy...
but i dont see why it is not even in the discussion since the other two are far from superior in reality...
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Re: So... WWII Flight Sims . What the Fuck?

Postby EAF79_OD_ » Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:11 pm

I hedged my bets and have both DCS and all of the BoX series. I try not to think how much it cost.

I don't keep up with stuff the same as I used to, I just appreciate the time I get to fly and try to make the most of it. BoX is growing on me, definitely, but DCS is still what I want to have work out. Normandy definitely is not finished. The textures outside the main battle zone make that obvious, but then that shouldn't be a surprise. The detailed area is the area that was originally envisioned for the map. That they expanded it was good, but it'll take time to complete. F/A18 is what's generating the interest though. I think the thing is with DCS it's never about what they have got, it's what's the next big thing.

F/A18 is interesting, but I don't think I have the time to learn. The Harrier on the other hand is of major interest, but I still have the issue of time. That's where BoX comes in, it's piss easy to learn. There are no procedures to learn, you get in press one button and it all starts. Press another button the guns fire etc. (Not saying I didn't have massive problems setting it up at first though!)

I think it all depends what you want. I think we all want a proper scenario for WW2, fully supported and dedicated to WW2 in Western Europe that can support an online campaign. No one really offers this - maybe TF, one day - but in the meantime we either have to go to the Eastern Front for a well supported WW2 sim or a mismatched unfinished western front that will take some time to be completed.

What would be great is that they all come together and make one sim...but that's not going to happen and then people would be upset that there were no other options!


There's always War Thunder ;)
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