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SC - it's going to be great right ?

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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby 56RAF_Roblex » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Personally, I look on SC as being a complete playable game that is being regularly expanded and improved. We did not call early DCS a beta because they had not given us a spitfire or a Mig15 or Normandy map. We called it a complete playable game that will be expanded later. Yes, whenStar Citizen only let you look at your ships sitting in the hangar it was an incomplete beta but now we have two bases and many ships and missions and 'sides' ie law abiding & non-law abiding. It is limited but it is complete enough to 'play' rather than just look at. Very soon we will have more places to go than either CLOD or DCS and a persistent universe with scripted and ad-hoc and dynamic missions which neither CLOD or DCS have.

In some ways Star Citizen is a victim of its own openness about what it hopes to achieve eventually. If they had just kept everything secret then suddenly launched SC 3.0 as a complete game with no info on what they hope to release in the coming years nobody would complain about it being incomplete. They would just think it was very good but a bit limited and ask politely if there might be an upgrade one day. Yes I am ignoring the business model that involved getting the players to finance it based on promises but let's pretend it had it own financing to get to this stage without telling the public what they were writing.
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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Wed Apr 19, 2017 3:19 pm

Didn't know you were playing SC Roblex.. will have to add you to contacts!
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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby No.401_Wolverine » Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:18 pm

The biggest problem I see with enjoying a game like SC is that it relies on other players not to be idiots.

You and your friends can play the game in an enjoyable simulation experience where you are all taking it seriously and thematically and then Johnny Spaceman appears, running around like crazy and behaving like a lunatic.

I really admire the optimism of developers looking to create deeply thematic open multiplayer worlds, but come on.... Once you open a game like this to the masses of yoo-hoos, I don't care how much lore you've put into the spaceship manufacturing companies, or all the pages and pages of story about the alien races, etc., you're going to kill the immersive atmosphere.

Flight sims generally don't have this issue because there's not a hell of a lot you can do that isn't thematic. People who crash into each other on purpose, or teamkill, or what have you can generally be kicked or banned from playing on your server.

I really like what SC wants to be, but I imagine I'll end up enjoying the Squadron 42 stuff way more.

I'd love to see a co-operative version of the SC shared universe. Something where you and a few friends can crew your own ship in a detailed universe that offers interesting encounters and combat and characters without having to run into SPACEMAN_SPLIFFxlololol. The multi-crew ships in SC that you can board and depart in real time are the most impressive thing about it so far.

Sea of Thieves looks like more fun to me, to be honest....
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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby 56RAF_Roblex » Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:11 pm

I must admit that when I watched the video posted by Dixon and saw someone walking around Port Olisar shooting up the station and killing everyone he saw, including the shop staff, I got a bit worried but on the other hand, people can already walk into Grimhex and attempt to kill everyone but they usually get killed fairly quickly by respawning players. I am not sure if we can already kill the NPCs and I don't think we can shoot up the scenery yet can we? There might need to be a more serious penalty than 'Wanted' status for going on a killing spree in one of your own sides stations because quite frankly I prefer being wanted. Grimhex is a much more interesting base to operate out of. Killing your own NPCs should result in you being 'kill on sight' to both sides (unless it is part of a mission eg they double crossed you)
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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:05 pm

That footage seems to be from a test video from CIG where they were showing off some camera and ai stuff pre-Star Marine release:



Given the option between having a safe zone where you can't use weapons (as they have at the moment) and having it so you can technically use weapons and shoot the place up, but you'll die very quickly if attempt to do so (as they intend to add) I'd prefer the latter.

Like back in Star Wars Galaxies where for one day they made the Imperial NPC Troops extremely powerful, pretty much killing any rebel on sight - that was a day long remembered. :P

The main issue will come with the semi-lawless or wilderness areas where security isn't as tight as on a civilised world, but then I suppose that's the risk of going to that sort of place, I think some deterrence for that (other than death) will be in the reputation loss, as if you do that sort of thing you'll probably get cut off from using the services or missions of the place, if not outright put on a shoot on sight list.

It's something they'll need to work out, but I'm hoping they'll do it properly and not just go the easy route and put in safe zones and PvE areas and the like, as many other games end up doing.
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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby No.54 Joker (KL-J) » Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:25 am

No.401_Wolverine wrote:The biggest problem I see with enjoying a game like SC is that it relies on other players not to be idiots.
You and your friends can play the game in an enjoyable simulation experience where you are all taking it seriously and thematically and then Johnny Spaceman appears, running around like crazy and behaving like a lunatic.



This!

I have privately banged on about this (probably too much) and likely to the annoyance of Philstyle, Reddog and Wardog at least).

Every time I've gone into this 'testing version' ... my experience has been with two emotions, WoW and FFS .... almost simultaneously.

Hence, my question .... SC - it's going to be great right?

No.401_Wolverine wrote: I really admire the optimism of developers looking to create deeply thematic open multiplayer worlds, but come on.... Once you open a game like this to the masses of yoo-hoos, I don't care how much lore you've put into the spaceship manufacturing companies, or all the pages and pages of story about the alien races, etc., you're going to kill the immersive atmosphere.


I guess I/We have to hope CIG are on top of this .. else, well ... it's ain't looking great from our flight sim influences style of play (simulation, immersion etc)

Admin (Reddog) wrote:By the time SC reaches a full ("proper") release status, how many will still be playing? The trouble with extended testing and prolonged development is that you tend to "do" the game. So when it's finished you're bored??


It's still very early on and as tiring it may be to repeat this point, it is still valid.
Looking at the work list on the development front, it is huge ... Reddog's point suddenly comes into focus.
I can visual 'work' getting the 'product built' fairly easily ... it requires skilled coders and good project management .... CIG seems to be on top of that in the main.

What I worry about more is the soft side, the encouragement of and guiding toward an immersive style of gameplay where running around like a nutter is not cool. That there is access to early release versions already means the 'style of gameplay' is already having it's foundations laid ....adding a bigger PU is not magically going to have everyone acting in a more sensible way.

56RAF_Roblex wrote:Personally, I look on SC as being a complete playable game that is being regularly expanded and improved .....


For Arena Cmdr. and Star Marine mini games.... yes ..
From a PU expectation, no way I can go with this yet. I appreciate the principle Roblex though and perhaps from 3.0 onwards, this will be more agreeable ... but to date, there is little in the list of complete against the back drop of what is announced.

Again, my real concern is not the content and the schedule as much as it is the game play style and what the potential for a truly immersive 'second life' experience will be.



Good thread.

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Re: SC - it's going to be great right ?

Postby No.401_Wolverine » Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:34 pm

I've got a couple of ships for SC and this extended 'alpha' stage is one of the reasons I've only vaguely dipped into it so far.

When they added the Freelancer and the ability to wander around the ship, get out, get in, all while in flight, I definitely checked it out to see if they'd managed to solve the issue of refresh of a moving object inside a moving object (which it seemed to be pretty good). Anyone remember Battlefield 2142 and the 'Titans'? Any time someone tried to move that thing, anybody on it would start to shimmy and shake all over the place and it made playing it impossible. But apart from that, I've not wanted to 'ruin' the final experience (if there is one).

I'm hoping for the following:

That the Squadron 42 campaign will include the ability to play multiplayer co-op with a multi-crew ship, with a selection of various ships to use. If they deliver that, then I will consider supporting this project money well spent - because with the fidelity of the sim they've got and the multi-crew ships working as well as they have them, it would be an absolutely amazing time.
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