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WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

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WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Thu Jun 21, 2018 7:28 am

FRIDAY JUNE 22 - 1930 UK LOCAL TIME
Hosted on OPEN BETA Branch
DCS Normandy Required
DCS WW2 Assets pack Required
Allowable Flaybles - Spitfire, P51, Bf109, FW190, T51
Teamspeak will be used for voice coms

I plan to throw up the SoW server with a ww2 test mission at the above time/ date.
Slots are availble for both Allied and Axis pilots (Spit IX, P51, FW190, BF109)

The mission is set approximately June 15 1944, immedaitely prior to the fall of Cherbourg to US forces.

Allied Pilots have P51s and Spit IXs available in France at three ALGs in the Bocage area, either side of the Duvre (without A.I. wingman)
Allied pilots can also spawn at very limited slots at 3 bases in southern england, these spawns will provide you with an AI wingman who will spawn with you and follow you in to battle.

Axis Pilots can spawn at Lessay, Cherbourg or Caen Carpiquet (without A.I. wingmen)
Axis also have a very limited number of spawns at Evreux which will provide you with an AI wingman who will spawn with you and follow you in to battle.

Allied ground units and ships can be found between St Vaast (near cherbourg) and along the normandy coast to Courseulles-sur-Mer.
Axis ground units are concentrated around Cherbourg and at Caen-Carpiquet airfield.

All active airfields have flak at them. Flak guns can, of course be destroyed.

A.I. aircraft from both sides will be present.
A couple of B17 formations will fly in from England at unsepcified times during the mission.

Very basic mappy thing:
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby EAF79_OD_ » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:01 am

I'd be very interested, but I don't think I can do this week. Will not be able to say until Friday night, if there is a Spitfire or P-51 slot available then I'll fly some ground attack :)
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:46 pm

Some feedback on the SoW Server Test this evening.

  • Excellent mission. Thanks Phil for building it. Thanks to those who took part in the testing.
  • Not sure what the total pilot count was, but probably about 3-4 Blue and 8-10 Red at the peak. The AI however meant that it didn't feel unbalanced at any stage.
  • XVII flew FW190 ground attack, but also a couple of bomber-destroyer missions too.
  • At the start, XVII had no idea what to do, but our briefing included ground attack, so we just flew to the nearest Allied airfield. There were some AI P51s on the ground, so we bombed them. Turned out they weren't AI (sorry). Suggestion #1: separate out the front lines a bit. Suggestion #2: increase the base AA/Flak. Suggestion #3: clarify the rules on airfield attack.
  • We then became Allied Enemy #1, and got strafed and chased at our airfield repeatedly. We had no alternatives. Suggestion #4: put in a second FW190 base.
  • Our airfield layout was good.
  • There was the option to take wingmen, but only for the 109s and only from one base. Suggestion #5: allow the FW190s to also take wingmen from somewhere.
  • We saw several AI bomber raids go through, but only managed to close on one. We got chewed up pretty badly, but managed to take out a couple of them too. I think the balance was about right; I don't think they need to be tougher/weaker.
  • The light smoke was excellent, esp. in the St. Hougue (XV29) area. Keep that sort of thing, please.
  • We had some occasional lag spikes. Not too bad, actually.
  • I got shot down multiple times... no doubt the videos of it are being produced as we speak. :roll:

Once again, thanks to everyone who took part.
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Campbell » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:25 am

I second most of what Dietrich posted, especially the airfield attacking. I personally really hate vultures and it pisses me off to no end. I was the one you bombed at the start and it was almost enough to make me leave right there. Glad to know it was accidental, unfortunately you weren’t the only one. I got shot down 4 times- 3 of those where from vultures. It was happening on our end a lot and I hate to read that it was happening on your end as well. Some rules definitely need to be laid down for the airfields. I don’t even understand why guys where doing that? The AI was very hard to kill and there where plenty of them early in the mission. We never even went near the axis base cause we could fly north west toward Cherbourg and get into to a brawl with AI in minutes. I never felt like we couldn’t find the enemy or had to go to his field to find him, (maybe guys didnt know there was AI!) My recommendations and request-

#1) Can you please add a small explanation for the icons on the map in the briefing. We figured out what was what but in the beginning we couldn’t tell what icons we could and couldn’t see. (Don’t remove them, sense there’s no spotting mod they helped tremendously)

2) Can we get some spawn fields for the Pony and Spit in southern England?

3) any chance of implementing Simple Radio?

4) Is there away to keep the AI respawing? Or show a script for when the bombers missions are completed? After all the bombers left all the axis AI vanished and left the sky very empty. We should have changed to ground pounding but we had no way of knowing that all the bomber runs had stopped. We flew another hour with no action.

5) would it be possible to get a simple map that can be added to our knee board giving us a layout of the front lines?

Btw the wind and clouds where a nice addition! A little bit of tweaking and laying down the law when it comes to airfield attack’s and it will be great! I’m looking forward to getting my squad more involved.
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:19 am

Thank for the feedback so far guys, keep it coming.

The mission was originally built to run for about 2 hours, but I left last night when there were still around 15 players online, so I just let the server continue running overnight. Now that I know it is stable, I will extend out the AI activity to fill a 4 to 5 hour period.

I do need to do something about the Brucheville/Lessay vulching problem (more flak, additional spawn locations etc...).
Vulching/ Airfield attack IS allowed, but I need to make it more costly to do. Unfortunately the Allied AA is restricted to just the 40mm bofors, which hardly fires at the moment. I need to find some solution (early cold war AA guns?) until the asset pack gets added to.

Dietrich, point taken about the FW 190 spawns, I will try to find a location for one.
Campbell, Mustangs were already available in southern England, but I will add another P51 spawn in France, maybe a Canadian one.

I'll also add more images/ maps and explanations to the in-game briefing now.
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Hiromachi » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:34 am

I would give more extensive feedback but yesterday was not a good day. I was plagued with game crashes which relate most likely to software (driver / api / game) issues and made me drop from the server 5 times at random situations. Not nice. But what I noticed I will share to improve this overall great undertaking.

The early hours combined with absence of dot mod made it incredibely hard to track and spot targets. Campbell sporting VR could spot and track targets easier than I could, due to the way DCS renders objects and how it scales with higher res - 3440 x 1440p for me (with MSAA x 2, SSAA x 1.5, shadows flat, textures high, heatblur on).
This is how a B-17 bomber formation looked to me when it was aprox. 5 miles away according to map I checked right after taking picture:

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As you can see they were almost entirely invisible for me when I zoomed out, in the first picture you may see them somewhere inbetween the Campbell (thats his P-51) and the big cloud below him. But until I zoom I cant track them. This is a single most annoying issue for me. I feel being punished by DCS for having a hardware with higher resolution and until this is adressed by ED I simply have to ask to provide dot mod.

Second thing is the AA. You will not be able to balance it. Allies rely on Bofors which is the only AA with realistic settings based on actual stats, meaning its fairly ineffectve even in decent numbers. 109s and 190s are just too fast to track them by AA.
On the other hand German AA (be it 20 mm or 88 mm) is using modern stats taken from ZSU and other modern assets. This has been confirmed on forums long time ago. As such it is fully capable of tracking and shooting aircraft moving fast and in all 3 dimensions. We've had plenty of that on Burning Skies when Eekz build a massive wall of german aa in the middle of the map.
Personally Id suggest use of Ai to provide CAP over airfields we spawn. Not sure if thats doable but Ai, despite being crazy accurate, cant bracket you at 7 miles and with second burst destroy.

Third is Ai. We had plenty of it initially (and later little to none) and it turned out to be a problem since we could not track it well but it could track us without problem and in P-51 you just cant engage like that. Spitfire can outturn them since thats what 109s mostly do, unlike 190s which seem to be preferring loops. But for P-51 its a bit more problematic and combination of AI using boosted FM along with very high levels of accuracy makes it more than annoying.
Overall Id drop Ai one step since its primary goal is to create an illusion of war, not to be a primary concern for players. We simply need more guys to fly the bad side :twisted:

The mission overall felt confusing. While brieafing gave general concept of what is going on, it was hard for me to grasp everything around. Perhaps thats just first time on the server issue, but a bit more extensive briefing would help.
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Campbell » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:51 pm

That was my bad Phil, I guess I didn’t scroll down far enough in the role selection screen to see the Britain bases. That’s a by product of being so used to always spawning in Normandy. Hiro’s suggestion of AI flying CAP around the bases while not the best solution may be a be a good gap solution especially if their skill level is cranked up. Need to somehow make base attacking suicidal!

Also, I had contacted Eekz of “Burning Skies” in the past about adding the spotting mod he uses to a mission. Below is his reply to my question. I didn’t understand the process cause I don’t make missions but maybe you will understand it better.

Hi! You can open any recent multiplayer track from our server with any archiver program like 7Zip or WinRAR and copy Config. Then open the desired mission with the same program and paste Config folder there.
Make sure that you have no forced labels restriction of label in your mission on in Mission Editor
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:39 pm

THREE quick things:

1. I was under the impression that Simple Radio required a static IP to use? If it doesn't then, yes, I can install a copy on the server. . . can anyone advise?

2. It seems people relied more on the forum briefing than the IN-GAME briefing. In future, please priorities the in-game briefing. It is more detailed. I may drastically reduce the forum-briefing detail in future to reduce the chances of people ignoring the in-game content.

3. I didn't want to use a label mod due to the fact that the labels can be seen through the canopy. I'm still not that keen on the idea. But if there is enough support for it I will implement it, as used on Burning Skies. It might take me some time to work out how. So if you have the files that Campbell mentions above, please upload them to a file server and send me a download link.
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby 71st_AH Rob (XR-R) » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:19 pm

Phil,

SRS does not require a static IP but it helps if you want to set up automatic connect for clients. You will need to make a communication plan ahead of time and edit the radio frequencies in the aircraft to make sure the right people can contact each other. The GCI can have a special overlay that can show ten radios at a time and easily select between them.

Label mod can be very unobtrusive. I can send you a file. Make sure in the editor under mission options that labels are on and you can force them if you choose so everyone sees the same thing at the same distance.

You will need to open the .Miz file with WinZip or similar and make two new folders in the archive and place the label.lua in that. You can use any ASCI character as the label, from "." To "*" or "?" even.
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Re: WW2 test mission - Friday June 22

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:02 pm

I've spent the day evaluating AA options for airbase defence. I've come up with a set of recommendations which should fix the problem. Details sent to Phil.

I've also started doing some research on the airfield locations, to try to improve the mission balance. That will take a while to sort out though.

What is the "Label Mod"? Can someone describe it or point me to a reference?
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