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SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby FlashheartEAF602 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:49 am

Presumably also there is going to be a chance for a (30min?) mission briefing from NATO TopHat/Package Cdr before we step to the machines to allocate callsigns, flight leads, definite tasking, weapons load-out etc?




Obviously can be in the TopHaT channel - but anyone know any shared online mission planner whiteboard stuff where folks could perhaps quickly draw routes etc?

(Grimreapers seem to use a Mission Ref Card (google docs?) that looks like it is editable by all players)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reg9eB2OVSw
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:51 pm

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De-brief and feedback

Firstly, thank you everyone who took part in the DCS Storm of War special event this evening. It was a good mission and it went well for the most part. Thanks to Phil for putting it together and hosting it. Of the targets, we managed to totally destroy the insurgents base, with partial damage to some of the other targets. The insurgents base will not be present in the sequel mission. At least 2x enemy aircraft were shot down. Losses were 1x F5 and 1x Huey to a SAM, 1x Harrier to technical drop-out, 1x Huey to engine failure and 1x Huey to multitask overload (combined with the unfortunate placement of a mountain).

We held a de-brief afterwards and the following points were noted:

  • It is impossible to fly a heavily-loaded Huey in unknown mountainous terrain, read the maps, look at the briefing schedules, take notes and provide GC and ATC for the entire event. :-\
  • Air-to-air refuel is needed. The Mirage flight in particular would have been greatly assisted with that.
  • Strike and escort flights need to operate from the same airport. Too much time (and fuel) was lost in rendezvous.
  • The insurgent base would have benefited with some unguided AAA or manpads.
  • There were a few lag spikes. Certainly some at the start, but then it improved. However there is a suspicion that there might be some lag associated with a script that was repeating.
  • Pilots are asked to be careful with use of whisper. I got a bit of spurious whisper traffic because aircraft functions had the same keypress as whisper contact.
  • The Migs from the northwest look like they may have diverted towards the centre action region.
  • The Harriers would have preferred to have flown from the west on grounds of range.
  • The A-10s would have preferred more information about the target (if possible) so they could select a more appropriate weapons package.
  • There was a suggestion of having the aircraft all operate out of a single base (or at least close-bases). We only had one real instance of this, which was the Mirage group diverting to the A-10 base. Pilots generally like seeing the busy activity of aircraft in the area, so this would be be good, but it does need to be balanced, so we don't have 30-minute lineups on the runway.
  • On the other hand, shared airport operations puts a higher load on ATC. If we do have ATC, then perhaps operating them out of a command vehicle with a good view of the the principle airfield would be best.
  • Having all the squads in close proximity on TS, and in custom-labelled TS channels really helps.

If anyone has anything to add/correct in the above, please reply and let us know. Likewise if you have screenshots or videos, please post them up. We will be updating this mission with the lessons from the points above and incorporating the results of this evening's session into the next instalment.

Once again, thank you to everyone who participated.
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby FlashheartEAF602 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:12 am

Thanks again for hosting/organising this excellent mission - my first online coop in DCS!

Good job by Mike in taking out the TV tower(s) after Red (who also had LGBs) had disconnect issues. And thanks to IRRE Mirage flight for keeping the MiGs off our back while we went to work.

(One additional thought for FatBen/Dixon - after checking the symbology, the M2s on our RWR were the Mirages and that pop-up SA-15 (Tor) might in fact have been the F-15Cs we were seeing. Depends whether there is a ^ over the '15' on the scope which indicates an air threat.)

It is impossible to fly a heavily-loaded Huey in unknown mountainous terrain, read the maps, look at the briefing schedules, take notes and provide GC and ATC for the entire event


:D I have to say I was confused in the server chat as to why TOPHAT/GCI had taken a UH-1H - I just thought it was something to do with LoTATC or something that you *had* to spawn into the battlefield somewhere and take a slot...
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby Admin (Philstyle) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:22 am

Thanks for the participation all, and the feedback. I will respond to Dietrich's debrief:

It is impossible to fly a heavily-loaded Huey in unknown mountainous terrain, read the maps, look at the briefing schedules, take notes and provide GC and ATC for the entire event. :-\


you did well, although TopHA should not be doing ATC. Permissions to land and takeoff are not real tactical considerations that TopHAT needs to be bothered with. Airfields should self-control.

Air-to-air refuel is needed. The Mirage flight in particular would have been greatly assisted with that.


Good idea. If people know how I can set this up.. then I will add it...

Strike and escort flights need to operate from the same airport. Too much time (and fuel) was lost in rendezvous.
The insurgent base would have benefited with some unguided AAA or manpads.


I tried to locate them at bases close-by. Learning to form up quickly and head out is basic stuff that people need to get better at. However, I can review the aircraft placements for next mission.

There were a few lag spikes. Certainly some at the start, but then it improved. However there is a suspicion that there might be some lag associated with a script that was repeating.


yeah.. I'm playing and hosting on the same machine too. Fingers crossed we will have a server up soon.

Pilots are asked to be careful with use of whisper. I got a bit of spurious whisper traffic because aircraft functions had the same keypress as whisper contact.


Indeed. Whispers were still a bit rusty. We need to get back up to classic SoW discipline again.

The Migs from the northwest look like they may have diverted towards the centre action region.


RGR. I will be reviewing red air activity for next mission. Overall it seemed to work though.

The Harriers would have preferred to have flown from the west on grounds of range.


Noted. would aerial refuelling help?

The A-10s would have preferred more information about the target (if possible) so they could select a more appropriate weapons package.


noted.

There was a suggestion of having the aircraft all operate out of a single base (or at least close-bases). We only had one real instance of this, which was the Mirage group diverting to the A-10 base. Pilots generally like seeing the busy activity of aircraft in the area, so this would be be good, but it does need to be balanced, so we don't have 30-minute lineups on the runway.


As above, I'm not 100% in favour of this. But I will see what adjustments I can make.

On the other hand, shared airport operations puts a higher load on ATC. If we do have ATC, then perhaps operating them out of a command vehicle with a good view of the the principle airfield would be best.


As above, TopHat should NOT be asked about normal airfield stuff (when to start/ TO / land etc) . .
TopHAT is there for wider situation and control, not minutiae

Having all the squads in close proximity on TS, and in custom-labelled TS channels really helps.


Good.
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:24 am

Admin (Dietrich) wrote:1x Huey to multitask overload (combined with the unfortunate placement of a mountain).


Just blame Rambo. :P

Thanks for the mission, it was my first go at multiplayer in a modern environment other than flying solo SAR in the Huey, so it was a good entry into the setting - the light air defences helped in that regard, as I imagine my 'fly leisurely over the target' attack pattern wouldn't have gone down well if they actually had guns, but I was just concentrating on not cocking it up completely considering three Mirages and two Harriers had escorted me all the way there (thanks!)

I'm surprised the broadcasting tower is only partially damaged as it looked like it went down on the targeting pod, although I guess I shouldn't have wasted two of my bombs on the target of opportunity (The Hospital/Orphanage/whatever), although I maintain that it was a cover for a cloaking generator, as the actual target wasn't visible until quite close range where as the other tower was, presumably something to do with user placed vs map objects, or just something I need to check in the settings.

My track file buggered up as it thinks I crashed into something that actually despawned on the night, but I have the 'live' video recorded, which is rendering now (all 1 hour and 14 minutes of it) which will probably take a while, but will be valuable defence evidence for my court martial. :lol:

FlashheartEAF602 wrote:(One additional thought for FatBen/Dixon - after checking the symbology, the M2s on our RWR were the Mirages and that pop-up SA-15 (Tor) might in fact have been the F-15Cs we were seeing. Depends whether there is a ^ over the '15' on the scope which indicates an air threat.)


Righto, guess I'd better gen up on the symbology before the next flight just in case.

Looking forward to the next mission!
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby Admin (Dietrich) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:53 pm

FlashheartEAF602 wrote:
It is impossible to fly a heavily-loaded Huey in unknown mountainous terrain, read the maps, look at the briefing schedules, take notes and provide GC and ATC for the entire event


:D I have to say I was confused in the server chat as to why TOPHAT/GCI had taken a UH-1H - I just thought it was something to do with LoTATC or something that you *had* to spawn into the battlefield somewhere and take a slot...


No... just being over-ambitious on my part. If I'm allowed to do TOPHAT again, I'll use either just the F10 map or, better, operate using combined arms.



Admin (Philstyle) wrote:{...} TopHA should not be doing ATC. Permissions to land and takeoff are not real tactical considerations that TopHAT needs to be bothered with. Airfields should self-control.


Sort of.

At the start, some pilots were expecting ATC-clearance to take off. Others not. This was just general confusion (mixed with some lingering memory of what we do when running OKL for the LW in SoW-CloD). We should establish some guideline so everyone knows what to expect. If there is no ATC, and they start themselves, fine. But then it should be clear in the briefing that this is the case.

The Senaki airfield situation arose because the Mirage flight was low on fuel. This was not due to their planning, but because I had diverted them to cover the A10s and deal the insurgents in the mountains. So, they then set down at the A10's airbase, which required a bit of coordination.

Otherwise, if pilots operate from their own fields, they should deal with ATC themselves. Having TS channels arranged at an airbase-level is a good way to do this.

Keeping TOPHAT out of those damnable flying windmills also helps.
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby EAF602_Red » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:22 pm

Thanks for all the effort put into this, was really looking forward to this all week, but the lag at the start was a bit off putting for me, personally I'm finding this to be the case in most servers, might have something to do with me only having 8gb memory, got a disco on first take off attempt, got lag spikes on my second and third attempts which caused aircraft to crash on TO, after that the other Harriers and Mirages were well gone, so I just sat this one out and went to the pub

Looking forward to the next one, hopefully it will work out better for me :roll:

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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby 19RAF MJDixon » Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:22 pm

Bad luck Red, shame you couldn't continue with us.

Here's my full sortie video of the Harrier strike, links to the important bits are in the video description:

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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby No.54 Joker (KL-J) » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:48 pm

In the main, this was quite a success I think.

It's been quite some time since a multi-squad 'event' was flown by so many which involved so may types of aircraft, roles and specialties.

Thanks to Phil and Dietrich for leading it and also, very importantly, thanks to everyone who joined the event.

It is, for me, the sense of being part a bigger org that is cool. Aware of being part of an independent 'component' of a larger overall offensive package, made the experience. i.e. Watching the Harrier YT videos, knowing, on the other side of the hills, I was flying as part of a separate strike package on our own mission, adds to my overall memory.

....and that damn frigate is still floating so No.54 Viggens have some unfinished business!

Really enjoyed it and looking forward to the next installment.

S!
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Re: SoW EVENT: 1980's "cold war" PvE Co-op mission

Postby EAF79_OD_ » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:51 pm

IFR is dead easy to implement I can talk you through it if you want. It needs to be in a good location for the Mirages and Harriers and everyone needs to be proficient in its use.
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